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Not sure if this is settled at this point but guess I’ll throw in my two cents.

Personally I don’t really use any of the others. I’ve always just used prompter:star streaker for my images because I’m prompting the AI to work for me. So I’m biased a little and say I still like using “prompter:*” but I think creator works well. A unified by:x tag would work pretty well too. Like a default tag automatically applied to each use or the implications @derp621 mentioned. That might be the most scalable option but probably the most complicated.

i like “director”

Having an implication of sorts might be good way to go, but it’d require some tech changes to deal with the issues that lead to this discussion in the first place.

I think artist:x, prompter:x and editor:x implying by:x or similar automatically would be the best of both worlds.

Whatever you do don’t consolidate everything into artist:x as that would cause confusion for other boorus and individuls that import tags from Tantabus.

I think that both arguments for simplification and for more nuance are valid. Personally, I only feel strongly about easy following. I don’t really care whether you unify all tags into a single originator:xxx or if you make the separate editor:xxx/prompter:xxx/artist:xxx imply originator:xxx.

One singular tag for creator is perfectly fine. Can literally be anything.

@MareStare
I simply disagree with your opinion that few people care as in such they don’t matter.

I used my filter as an example of what I see as the ordinary user. That’s it. I just do not see how this:

contradicts with this:

“Very few” does not mean zero. So I’m not sure what you wanted to say with that. My suggestion was a compromise approach whereby role tags are optional, if people want to use them, they can add them. For common users that don’t care they may omit them, but the “creator” tag should be mandatory.

@MareStare
I am trying to take into account people who’s opinions are not mine, there is a person in this very thread who’s opinion isn’t what you are assuming. I’m not sure what your filter has to do with anything or what you added to it, that isn’t relevant.

I’m speaking from the experience of using derpibooru/tantabus and having nothing more than grotesque, morbidly obese and some creator tags added to filters. I’ve been using the standard Everything for years until very recently. Mostly looking through the first several pages of the most recent posts, trending, and checking the faves. I believe most people who aren’t involved in tagging, day-to-day metadata updates and power-using the system are just like that. Since many such low-end people do not even read forums or sit on Tantabus Discord, their opinions are left in a void, and it’s important to take that into account. Some common sense guesswork here is unavoidable

@MareStare
That’s a big assumption to make that even I’m not making and I find that assuming like that isn’t practical and only serves to make someone’s opinion seem more important than it is.

That’s why I mentioned

Meaning there is demand from power users, but it’s low because the number of power users is naturally low.

I do, I care, a lot. I also care a lot about indexing roles. I also search for those tags like wings and open mouth a lot.

Knowing what role a person played in the project is cool just for bookkeeping and historical purposes, but not for indexing purposes. Here’s what I mean by that.

We have a bunch of tags like wings, horn, tail, shirt, desk, open mouth and other minor tags like that which (I think) very rarely get searched for. Meaning people rarely put them into the search box when they come to visit the site and see what new art has been posted, or into the faves and filters. I think very few power users have such specific filters.

Same thing with the creator tags. Very few people care about the role the creator played in the art piece. I think the “creator” tag would have a much greater demand than artist/editor/prompter. I guess it’s fine to keep the “role” tags as metadata facts but at most as best-effort tags. We may not even always know what role people played in the art piece when it gets reposted to tantabus by a 3-rd party who didn’t take part in the creative process. On the contrary I think at least one “creator” tag should be enforced, unless explicit “anonymous creator” or “unknown creator” tag is assigned.

@Scarlet Ribbon
But does an average user care about distinctions like that? Especially if (in the vast majority of cases) “artist”, “prompter” and “editor” would be the same person? I think this distinction is just unnecessary.

I don’t know how others are using them, but I would use them as follows:

artist: A person who creates any input work that is pre-existing art into the AI pipeline
prompter: A person who actually writes the prompt/creates the workflow/engages the AI portion of the process
editor: A person who edits the AI output into a finished product

These are absolutely all useful tags that have no business being removed from stuff, however, they’re only useful if they’re being applied correctly.

After reading about how ‘effort’ tags already exist, I now fully agree with a “creator” tag. With “Editor” remaining for it’s intended purpose, for when someone else was the prompter.

Edit: If someone puts someone elses generated art back into the ai generator, I assume if the original image is still clearly there, like in cases here people put someone’s generated art into an AI purely to animate it, that the right tag to use would be “creator” for both of them? Or would you use an editor tag for the second prompter? Just unsure if editor is the right tag when it’s the AI doing the editing. This is the one thing I can’t yet wrap my head around to be sure on.

Unifying prompter and artist into creator or director, and setting apart editor for third-party edits seems like a good idea.

As someone who came to the platorm quite recently, I found the terms to be quite muddled. prompter implies creator makes a prompt and doesn’t necessarily draw, and artist implies large hand-drawn edits. editor is vague, does painting over a ghost signature make one an editor of their own picture? Or does that constitute being an artist? Or is it too small of a change to warrant a second creator tag at all? Am I an artist if I generate through complex workflow and bake in all the changes there, without touching a graphics editor? If I edit someone else’s work with Photoshop, would that make me an artist in addition to editor?

@Nocturn
Agreed. We already have “ai generated”, “ai composition” and “ai assisted” tags, so one of them combined with the creator’s tag should be sufficient for pretty much all cases. “editor:” could be used just for someone editing someone else’s work.

For this site, can you please describe what you consider to be the difference between editor:* and artist:* tags, or how those tags differentiate either the image or the creator for you, or how they are otherwise meaningful and useful for you here?

I am asking because I do not know how they are different in actual use here, or how they provide any meaning to searches, images, or filters.

Let me describe why I don’t see them being different or having any meaning here.

First, the definition of artist here is: “artist:~~name here~~ — specifies the artist if the work has an original non-AI creator or has significant editing (for example, for ai composition images)”, but in actual use here artist:* is used twice as often on images that are neither ai composition nor ai assisted as it is on images that are.

Instead of finding images with significant editing or based on original human artist works, a search for artist:* here is twice as likely to find a pure ai generated image.

So artist:* is not fulfilling the only actual statement of purpose that I can find here.

editor:* has no definition or use here, and in practice seems to be used based on the source of the image - legacy tags or conventions from other sites - or based on the creator’s own subjective assessment of their effort or ability.

And I just noticed the site suggests creator:your-name for the User Link requests, but there’s only 8 ‘creators’ on the site. Which just makes me feel less like any of this is intentional or providing meaningful data for searches, and is only making it more convoluted to find “images by this specific person”.

So in practice all three of those - artist:*, editor:*, creator:* seem to functionally mean the same thing here. And which one is on an image seems to be completely arbitrary and meaningless.

For me, I would rather search for or follow by:rupert than (prompter:rupert OR artist:rupert), or by:truekry as opposed to (artist:truekry OR prompter:truekry).

Because then I could find or watch or hide “Images by Rupert” or “Images by Truekry” if I wanted with a single tag.

I’m not saying that you don’t find meaning or utility in the editor:* or artist:* tags, especially given how strongly you advocate for them.

But can you please give me an example of how you are actually using those different tags today, in practice, that makes them useful?

As long as you don’t switch on using “artist” for non-drawn works I’m fine with whatever. I feel like artist should be reserved for derpibooru.

Also, since I wasn’t aware of the exact numbers myself, reposting from our tech admin…

In case it’d help with how you manage things for now…

Unfortunately right this moment I don’t think we’re still comfortable with the idea of easing up on these limits; we know that spambots on derpi have been getting more “creative” with their avenues of attack (attacking sources recently), and there’re at least to semi-active tag vandals that affect multiple boorus =/

@Background Pony #E53E
Can I ask if there’s a reason to not just use an account? Would spare you the captchas, plus lets you set custom filters/watchlists and some other settings.

As a background pony the limit is hitting me pretty hard. Even limiting myself to the weekly uploads of a single prompter I can’t keep up. I hit the limit every day and more images keep coming that need additional tags.

Today I burned through my day’s allotment just adding ‘male pov’ tags to a recent spate of NSFW images by thefuncave and ran out before I could finish tagging a Spitfire image that needs more specificity.

I think doubling the limit for BGP edits could help ease the burden. Even +50% would make a difference for me.

I think staff need to seriously think about what they’re proposing here: Regardless of the name you ultimately decide on, what you are doing is effectively removing the entire existence of editor/artist tags. You are functionally REMOVING distinctions because a limited number of people don’t want to learn to use the site correctly.

As I mentioned before, adding an additional implied unified tag (credit:xxxxx?) solves both issues.