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Creator Tags - Should we simplify them? Opine Here!

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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 23

greengeode

Unifying prompter and artist into creator or director, and setting apart editor for third-party edits seems like a good idea.
As someone who came to the platorm quite recently, I found the terms to be quite muddled. prompter implies creator makes a prompt and doesn’t necessarily draw, and artist implies large hand-drawn edits. editor is vague, does painting over a ghost signature make one an editor of their own picture? Or does that constitute being an artist? Or is it too small of a change to warrant a second creator tag at all? Am I an artist if I generate through complex workflow and bake in all the changes there, without touching a graphics editor? If I edit someone else’s work with Photoshop, would that make me an artist in addition to editor?
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 22

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
@Nocturn
Agreed. We already have “ai generated”, “ai composition” and “ai assisted” tags, so one of them combined with the creator’s tag should be sufficient for pretty much all cases. “editor:” could be used just for someone editing someone else’s work.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 21

Nocturn

Moderator
Adjutant
@Scarlet Ribbon
… what you are doing is effectively removing the entire existence of editor/artist tags …
For this site, can you please describe what you consider to be the difference between editor:* and artist:* tags, or how those tags differentiate either the image or the creator for you, or how they are otherwise meaningful and useful for you here?
I am asking because I do not know how they are different in actual use here, or how they provide any meaning to searches, images, or filters.
Let me describe why I don’t see them being different or having any meaning here.
First, the definition of artist here is: “artist:~~name here~~ — specifies the artist if the work has an original non-AI creator or has significant editing (for example, for ai composition images)”, but in actual use here artist:* is used twice as often on images that are neither ai composition nor ai assisted as it is on images that are.
Instead of finding images with significant editing or based on original human artist works, a search for artist:* here is twice as likely to find a pure ai generated image.
So artist:* is not fulfilling the only actual statement of purpose that I can find here.
editor:* has no definition or use here, and in practice seems to be used based on the source of the image - legacy tags or conventions from other sites - or based on the creator’s own subjective assessment of their effort or ability.
And I just noticed the site suggests creator:your-name for the User Link requests, but there’s only 8 ‘creators’ on the site. Which just makes me feel less like any of this is intentional or providing meaningful data for searches, and is only making it more convoluted to find “images by this specific person”.
So in practice all three of those - artist:*, editor:*, creator:* seem to functionally mean the same thing here. And which one is on an image seems to be completely arbitrary and meaningless.
For me, I would rather search for or follow by:rupert than (prompter:rupert OR artist:rupert), or by:truekry as opposed to (artist:truekry OR prompter:truekry).
Because then I could find or watch or hide “Images by Rupert” or “Images by Truekry” if I wanted with a single tag.
I’m not saying that you don’t find meaning or utility in the editor:* or artist:* tags, especially given how strongly you advocate for them.
But can you please give me an example of how you are actually using those different tags today, in practice, that makes them useful?
Posted Report

General Discussion » why is everyone so silent online nowdays? » Post 29

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
@Background Pony #F22A
I would say there is no need to make up for crappy production values with AI-generated images, since it’s trivial to make good looking, generic pictures, while it takes a bit more effort to create something even amateurish-looking with additional elements added manually. It would be more effort for (arguably) worse result.
Posted Report

General Discussion » why is everyone so silent online nowdays? » Post 28

General Discussion » why is everyone so silent online nowdays? » Post 27

Kosmo

@Thoryn
99% of the time, my only comment would be “I like this.” - so I just hit the upvote/fav icon instead.
same here, pressing button is way easier than typing something creative in the comments so I leave comments only when I really feel it, like something is really cute or i laugh hard
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 20

Background Pony #9429
As long as you don’t switch on using “artist” for non-drawn works I’m fine with whatever. I feel like artist should be reserved for derpibooru.
Posted Report

General Discussion » why is everyone so silent online nowdays? » Post 26

Background Pony #F22A
prior to ai you would see a lot of poor photoshop/bad ms paint meme things that would make up for their crappy production values with wit and charm. there is very little of that with ai (at least on here) but why is that? it should be easier with the tools that let you doodle the composition no?
Posted Report

Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 5

Admin

Administrator
Also, since I wasn’t aware of the exact numbers myself, reposting from our tech admin…
The limit is 50 tag changes per 10 minutes and 1 rating change per ten minutes, for anonymous and unverified users
In case it’d help with how you manage things for now…
Unfortunately right this moment I don’t think we’re still comfortable with the idea of easing up on these limits; we know that spambots on derpi have been getting more “creative” with their avenues of attack (attacking sources recently), and there’re at least to semi-active tag vandals that affect multiple boorus =/
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Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 4

Site and Policy » The tag change post limit problem » Post 3

Background Pony #E53E
As a background pony the limit is hitting me pretty hard. Even limiting myself to the weekly uploads of a single prompter I can’t keep up. I hit the limit every day and more images keep coming that need additional tags.
Today I burned through my day’s allotment just adding ‘male pov’ tags to a recent spate of NSFW images by thefuncave and ran out before I could finish tagging a Spitfire image that needs more specificity.
I think doubling the limit for BGP edits could help ease the burden. Even +50% would make a difference for me.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 19

Scarlet Ribbon

True Wildcard
I think staff need to seriously think about what they’re proposing here: Regardless of the name you ultimately decide on, what you are doing is effectively removing the entire existence of editor/artist tags. You are functionally REMOVING distinctions because a limited number of people don’t want to learn to use the site correctly.
As I mentioned before, adding an additional implied unified tag (credit:xxxxx?) solves both issues.

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 18

tyto4tme4l

Something of an artist
I think the unification is a good idea. Personally, I lean toward “prompter” as the unified tag, but “creator” would also be fine.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 17

Heat Sink

Moderator
Even with unified tags it is still possible for creators to seperate their art vs edits by just making a second creatpr tag like for example creator:(user) & creator:(user)edits. But with the unified tag we give the creator the choice if they want to have it seperate or combined. Now it feels like it is forced to be seperate.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 16

truekry

Wizzard
@Zerowinger
I guess it makes sense. I guess it’s more of a personal thing as I’m not really comfortable being referred to as a “creator,” when in my opinion I’m not really creating anything. I’m not sketching a start image or editing a traditional art image I made, I’m just entering text into a UI and clicking a button until I get something I like. At best I’ll evolve/duplicate generations and clean them up afterwards, but I still don’t know if that really makes me a creator.
It kind of does, in my opinion. You created the text and you edit. You help in the creative effort and in doing so makes you a creator. We can debate the involvement level needed to define this more but that isn’t the point. That’s was the other ai level tags are for. Creator has a nice ring to it in my opinion.

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 15

FoalFucker

logically multiple artists tags are pointless when the composition, generated, assisted tags do the same thing. BUT at the same time you should let people be if they really want to hide there low effort work otherwise well just end up with multiple different names for the same creator. But if we do combine, why not just name it artist to standardize?
Also why do we even have an “ai generated” tag when it’s the majority default? If people want to differentiate then we have AI Comp and Assisted. i always forget and so do a lot of others since it doesn’t make sense for an all AI booru.

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 14

Teaspoon

poni
@LightningBolt
You…assume it’s more common for people to want to follow everything a person makes all at once? ._.;
I mean, yeah? I see it much more likely that someone would go “I want to follow everything this person does” than “I want to follow what this person does except this content type”, and in the latter case I’d expect that person to know how filters and watchlists work.
keeping things as they are creates the least amount of issues
I just really don’t see it that way.
On a personal level, a lot of the stuff I work on, I spend a fair bit of time on, sketch out parts, clean up errors, add in details, splice backgrounds and characters into one image, etc. Others I just get a p.cool looking image out of the gate and just do some minor fixes. Currently I tag both as “prompter” because I can’t be arsed with having two tags (especially when the resulting visual differences between both image types isn’t all that noticeable and I’m pretty much the only one that knows).
And I can just, like, add it to myself. For the average user that wants to have a profile here, they have to request a prompter link. And then an editor link. And maybe an artist link, too. Their profile now has at least 3 different origin tags. Now multiply that by how many other places they post on.
And additionally, the scenario where someone uploads an image they think is one type, but is actually another. To fix it, someone needs to fix both the “artist” tag and the “ai something” tag.
Otherwise, the tags are wrong, as these redundant set of tags have to match. A discordance the site already suffers from.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 13

MareStare

Mare Zealot
Thankfully watchlists allow for complex queries and they can just do artist:blah AND NOT photo; yes the reverse path of someone adding all the different origin tags to their watchlist could also work, but, I strongly suspect your scenario is far less common than “I want to watch all this person’s stuff”, so less overall friction.
Basically, my thoughts as well. To me, it’s apparent that people more often want to subscribe to everything the person creates. I find the use case of the complex “author but not photo” much less common, especially given that this site is generally less diverse in types of content than Derpibooru. Other social media sites like X, BlueSky etc. don’t even have a feature of complex filter and people live fine subscribing to everything from the person. Also, if people aren’t interested in author’s photo stuff, it’s likely they aren’t interested in any photos at all and may just hide that tag sitewide.
So, given that there is still solution, I vote that it’s better to prioritise a more common case as the default. I.e. “Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible”. Of course this isn’t built on any statistics, just on my sense.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 12

LightningBolt

Administrator
ADHD fueled
@Teaspoon
You…assume it’s more common for people to want to follow everything a person makes all at once? ._.;
Well then.
I am aware complex watching and filtering exists, I am also aware that most people find it too complicated, and to my perspective, keeping things as they are creates the least amount of issues imo.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 11

Teaspoon

poni
@LightningBolt
Thankfully watchlists allow for complex queries and they can just do artist:blah AND NOT photo; yes the reverse path of someone adding all the different origin tags to their watchlist could also work, but, I strongly suspect your scenario is far less common than “I want to watch all this person’s stuff”, so less overall friction.
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 10

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 9

Teaspoon

poni
Was already stated, but main reasons this was brought up are:
  1. Redundant tagging separation, as we already have ai composition, ai generated, and ai assisted to separate “artistic effort”
  2. The way the site handles user links means people that do multiple types of content sort of get shafted; if someone sees prompter:blah and clicks for more, they won’t see all their artist:blah or editor:blah. Yes, site profile lists those… but that assumes there is a profile, and that the user knows to click on it to check… not great
  3. Automatic tagging from uploading currently defaults to prompter:blah, something uploaders might not change when appropriate
Basically we don’t want to lose the whole “separating pure prompted work from heavily guided and edited work” functionality, but the current way of doing it through both the type and origin tag seems clunky and overall detrimental.
As for the name of the tag itself, that’s far from settled. creator:blah felt neutral, director:blah is what’s used in e6ai so maybe people are used to that. author:blah could definitely work. There’s also producer:blah, or simply just by:blah.
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Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 8

LightningBolt

Administrator
ADHD fueled
@MareStare
It’s also very annoying that different tags that refer to the same person have different followership, and thus if people are subscribed to prompter:marestare, for example, they won’t see new posts that contain editor:marestare or artist:marestare without the prompter:marestare tag. For this reason, I’ve been adding several variants of the authorship tags to my posts.
That sounds like a feature and not a bug, actually. Someone watching a person’s artist: tag may simply not be interested in their photographer: or editor: tag, so, no actually, those tags all exist separately for a reason, and using them all on the same image defeats the point and sounds silly to me. If someone wants to follow them all, they can, if they don’t want to, they shouldn’t be forced to. it’s not an all or nothing thing, they’re different things, and that’s okay.
(For the record, I’m against tag name unification)
Posted Report

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 7

MareStare

Mare Zealot
I fully agree with @Heat Sink. It is indeed inconvenient to have several different ways to denote the author of the image. If you take a look at my user profile, you’ll see a combinatorial explosion of various authorship tags linked to my socials, because “artist links” were not well designed for having several authorship tags referring to the same person. It’s also very annoying that different tags that refer to the same person have different followership, and thus if people are subscribed to prompter:marestare, for example, they won’t see new posts that contain editor:marestare or artist:marestare without the prompter:marestare tag. For this reason, I’ve been adding several variants of the authorship tags to my posts.
It does seem very logical to decouple the authorship from the “level of human effort” categories of tags. Even on derpibooru, I think it would make sense to separate these concerns. For edits of other works, there could be a tag “edit”, and if people want to clarify who did what in multi-authored posts, they can do that via the description.
As for the unified tag naming, I don’t like the term “director”. I know it comes from e6ai, but I don’t like their choice because this tag doesn’t look all that intuitive for an outside person. An outside person would indeed look for something called creator or author. I think both are fine, but I lean more towards author for no specific reason other than maybe that it’s shorter.

Site and Policy » Possible change to Creator tags. [Opinions needed] » Post 6

Scarlet Ribbon

True Wildcard
@Heat Sink
I can’t agree with making tags less distinct across the entire site to solve what is honestly going to be a pretty uncommon edge case. However, there might be some value in adding a ‘creator:xxxxxxx’ tag that is implied by any artist/prompter/editor tag if that edge case is important.
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